Podcast

what colleges want

510: What Colleges Want (Part 9): A Crash Course in Standardized Testing

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Today’s episode concludes our 9-part “What Colleges Want” series, where we’ve been walking through the results of the report released by the National Association of College Admission Counselors (NACAC) regarding the factors that colleges deem important. Ethan is joined by Jay Rosner (Executive Director of The Princeton Review Foundation) to talk about standardized testing. 

In this episode they get into: 

  • What are the origins of the SAT?

  • What’s changed in the testing landscape in the last year or two? 

  • Does test optional really mean test optional?

  • How much standardized tests matter for colleges?

  • How do students figure out their preparation timeline and which test to take? 

  • Why might testing be considered problematic?

As the Executive Director of The Princeton Review Foundation, Jay Rosner has developed programs jointly with such organizations as the NAACP, the Hispanic Scholarship Fund, College and Graduate Horizons (serving Native American students) and the Asian Pacific Fund. Jay's career has combined education and law, with an emphasis on student advocacy. He has testified before state legislative committees in California, Texas, Illinois and New Jersey, and as an expert witness in cases involving testing. Before attending law school, Jay was a public high school math teacher. Jay holds a BA from the University of Pennsylvania, a JD from Widener University, and is the proud father of two grown daughters.

Hope you enjoy! 

Play-by-Play

  • 2:16 - How does Jay know so much about standardized tests? 

  • 4:23 - What are the origins of the SAT?

  • 6:40 - How has standardized testing changed in recent years?

  • 11:25 - Is test-optional really optional? 

  • 13:26 - How much do standardized tests matter in the application review?

  • 14:49 - Who should take standardized tests?

  • 20:24 - Is it better to take the SAT or the ACT?

  • 23:30 - What are the benefits of quality test prep? 

  • 27:10 - How can students reach their best score? 

  • 33:54 - How do students know if they should submit their scores or not? 

  • 38:40 - Advice for counselors working with students in marginalized populations  

  • 42:05 - Why do some folks find standardized testing to be problematic?

  • 45:00 - Closing advice for students and counselors 

Resources

 

509: What Colleges Want (Part 8): Extracurricular Activities Deep Dive: How Getting Involved In and Out of School Can Boost Your Application

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On today’s episode, Tom Campbell (CEG’s Community Manager) is joined by Carolyn Starks, a former Pomona and Bates admissions officer and Associate Director of College Counseling at Oakwood School (North Hollywood, CA) at the time of recording, to talk about extracurricular activities and the activities list on college applications.

They get into, among other things:

  • What are some of the benefits of getting involved in your school community?

  • How can students explore activities outside of their high schools?

  • How do admission officers evaluate a student’s activities list?

  • Frequently asked questions about activities and summer programs

  • And more! 

But first, let’s meet Carolyn: 

Carolyn Starks followed her father’s footsteps and attended Rhodes College in Memphis, TN where she studied English and Africana Studies. After graduation, she moved to Portland, ME to work at Bates College where she focused on supporting first-generation-to-college, BIPOC, and/or low-income students through the admissions process. After two years, she landed a job at Pomona College’s Office of Admissions where she joined the Access Team, ran the College’s diversity fly-in programs, and learned to be justice oriented in her approach to educational equity. Though at the time of recording Carolyn was Oakwood School in North Hollywood’s Associate Director of College Counseling, she will soon be moving to serve as Co-Director of College Counseling at Santa Fe Prep in Santa Fe, NM. In her free time, Carolyn enjoys indulging in local cuisine and watching Bravo with her husband and her dog, Ms. Pecan Pie. 

We hope you enjoy the episode. 

Play-by-Play

  • 4:48 - What is Carolyn’s background? 

  • 6:20 - What activities was Carolyn involved in during high school?

  • 8:36 - What activities did Tom participate in during high school? 

  • 10:45 - How can students learn about the opportunities at their school?

  • 16:50 - Why should students get involved within their school community?

  • 23:09 - How can students be involved in extracurriculars outside their school? 

  • 29:57 - What should students keep in mind when applying to highly selective schools?

  • 36:13 - Do colleges have preferred activities or summer experiences?

  • 36:41 - Does placement on an activities list matter?

  • 37:37 - How many years should students participate in an activity? 

  • 39:05 - How important is having formal leadership roles? 

  • 42:18 - What might not be worth putting on your activities list? 

  • 46:25 - How many activities is enough? 

  • 51:22 - How can students maintain a balance between their home life, academic, and extracurricular activities?

  • 55:47 - Closing thoughts 

Resources

 

508: What Colleges Want (Part 7B): Recommendation Letter Crash Courses for Counselors and Teachers

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Today’s episode is all about writing letters of recommendation for teachers and counselors. Continuing our series on What Colleges Want, Tom Campbell (CEG’s Community Manager) is joined by Hanah Lim (CEG’s Director of Workshops and a former high school English teacher), where they provide their tips, tricks, and hacks to help you write more efficient and effective letters for your students.

Tom and Hanah discuss:

  • How long should letters be and what format works best? 

  • How do letters differ between counselors and teachers? 

  • What details might be helpful to include, and what should be avoided? 

  • How can teachers and counselors efficiently gather more information about their students to include in the letter?

We hope you enjoy the episode!

In case you missed it: Students and families, be sure to check out last week’s episode with Ayesha King to learn about what goes into a letter of recommendation, how they are evaluated by colleges, and who students should consider asking. 

Hanah Lim is the Director of Workshops at College Essay Guy and a former public high school English teacher. She oversees College Essay Guy's essay and application workshop team and organizes speaking events and college application and essay workshops for students at schools and organizations in the US and around the world. She has presented college essay workshops to thousands of students across diverse settings, including community-based organizations, public, international, and independent schools. She also worked as a college consultant for students in Bangkok, Thailand, directed SAT prep centers in Irvine, California and worked with non-profit groups and as an AVID teacher and coordinator to help close the achievement gap. She holds a B.A. in English with an emphasis in Education from California State University of Long Beach.  Hanah finds joy in watching musicals, visiting Disney parks with her husband, and playing with her two cats.

Play-by-play

  • 2:19 - Hanah and Tom share their school contexts for writing their letters of recommendation

  • 5:40 - How much weight do letters of recommendation hold in admission? 

  • 10:25 - What is the best practice for the length of a letter of recommendation for college? 

  • 10:57 - How should it be formatted? 

  • 14:03 - Should a letter be customized for each college?

  • 15:38 - What else is submitted with the student’s application from the high school?

    • 16:19 - What is covered in the school profile? 

    • 19:44 - What is covered in the counselor’s letter?

    • 25:25 - What is covered in the teacher's letter?

  • 30:46 - How does the Supreme Court ruling on race-conscious admission affect letters of recommendation?

  • 36:29 - What generally might be not as helpful to include in the letter?

  • 40:38 - Hanah shares her process for writing letters of recommendation

  • 49:18 - Tom shares his process for writing letters of recommendation

  • 59:01 -  How to incorporate a student’s essay brainstorming work

  • 1:01:37 - How could generative AI be utilized in the recommendation writing process?

  • 1:07:08 - Closing thoughts

ResourceS

  • Continued Learning

 

507: What Colleges Want (Part 7A): Recommendation Letter Crash Course for Students and Families

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This week, Tom Campbell (CEG’s Community Manager) is joined by Ayesha King (Director of College Counseling at the International School of Los Angeles) to talk about letters of recommendation. They get into:

  • What goes into a letter of recommendation?

  • How are they evaluated by colleges?

  • Who should students consider asking, and how do they ask?

  • What can students and families do to ensure that their letters are the best they can be?

  • What are FERPA rights and why should you waive them?

Ayesha King (she/her) has over twelve years of experience in admissions at the secondary, undergraduate, and postgraduate levels, developing her values of social justice, equity and access. She is currently the Director of College Counseling at the International School of Los Angeles (LILA), a French International school, where she is stretching her skills working with students considering post-secondary options all over the world. She holds her Bachelors degree from the University of Redlands and her Masters degree from California Lutheran University. Ayesha loves spending time with her two boys and two dogs, visiting Disneyland, and talking about pop culture.

This is the next episode in our series on What Colleges Want. Stay tuned for our upcoming episode about writing letters of recommendation for teachers and counselors. Tom will be joined by Hanah Lim (CEG’s Director of Workshops and a former high school English teacher), where they provide their tips, tricks, and hacks to help you write more efficient and effective letters for your students.

We hope you enjoy the conversation! 

Play-by-play

  • 2:49 - How important are letters of recommendation to admissions officers? 

  • 5:55 - Why might it be called a “Letter of Advocacy” instead?

  • 7:19 - When would a letter of recommendation make a big impact on a student’s application?

  • 13:38 - Should students also share this important context if it’s already in their recommendation letter?

  • 15:35 - How can students determine how many letters to request?

  • 19:49 - What is being said in these letters?

  • 26:38 - Which teachers are typically the best to ask for a recommendation letter?

  • 29:51 - Why should students consider asking a teacher from a class they struggled in?

  • 30:47 - What can students do to help their teachers & counselors write the best letter possible?

  • 36:06 - What information should students share with their recommenders?

  • 39:20 - How should students ask for a letter once they have determined who to ask?

  • 44:41 - Do students ever see their letters of recommendation? 

  • 48:24 - Closing advice for parents & students

ResourceS

 

506: What Colleges Want (Part 6): Demonstrated Interest: What Is it, Why Is it Important, and How Do You Show it? with Dean of Enrollment Christine Bowman

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On today’s episode, Ethan is joined by Christine Bowman, Assistant VP for Admission at Southwestern University. In part 6 in our series on What Colleges Want, Ethan and Christine get into:

  • What is demonstrated interest and how do colleges track it? 

  • How important is demonstrated interest to a student’s chance of getting in?

  • How might students find out if a particular school considers demonstrated interest in their admission review?

  • What are some practical ways you can demonstrate your interest to colleges?

Christine Bowman is the Assistant VP for Admission at Southwestern, where she oversees the admission department to set enrollment and retention philosophies. She has a Masters in Higher Ed Administration from UT-Austin, was the Co-Chair for the 2007 NACAC National Conference in and has served two terms as the Chair of the Colleges that Change Lives Board of Directors (see last season’s episode with Ann Marano for more on CTCL’s work). She currently serves on the advisory board of ROCA-NM (Rural Opportunities for College Access) and, with almost 30 years of experience in the admission profession, Christine believes in guiding students to find the right college fit and regularly gives presentations encouraging a stress-free college search process.

We hope you enjoy the conversation! 

Play-by-play

  • 2:15 - What is demonstrated interest?

  • 5:00 - Why might demonstrated interest be important to colleges?

  • 8:22 - What is yield?

  • 11:24 - How can students demonstrate interest for a particular school? 

  • 15:17 - What can colleges track?

  • 18:52 - For whom does demonstrated interest matter most? 

  • 23:47 - How to “break up” with a college

  • 27:05 - What are some practical tips for students as they reach out to a college?

  • 30:10 - How might an admissions officer use demonstrated interest?

  • 32:58 - What ways can students demonstrate interest without visiting campus?

  • 37:24 - What is the difference between early action, early decision, and regular decision?

  • 40:25 - How important is the college interview?

  • 48:10 - What can parents do to support their students during this process?

  • 53:02 - Closing advice for parents, students, and counselors 

ResourceS

 

504: What Colleges Want (Part 4): A Crash Course in the Personal Statement with Ethan Sawyer (College Essay Guy)

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On this week’s episode, Tom Campbell (CEG’s Community Manager) sits down with Ethan Sawyer (College Essay Guy) for Part 4 in our What Colleges Want series to talk about the personal statement. According to the latest State of College Admission report – after grades, course rigor, and positive character traits (see previous episodes), the college essay is what colleges care about most. Tom and Ethan get into:

  • What is the purpose of the personal statement? 

  • How do you find a topic, especially if you’re not writing about challenges?  

  • Why do I recommend students NOT choose a common extracurricular activity as their main college essay topic? 

  • How do you stand out? 

  • And how do you know when you’re done?

Fun fact: You’ll find the YouTube video version of this podcast on the College Essay Guy YouTube channel.

Play-by-play

  • 1:38 - What is the purpose of the personal statement in the college admission process?

  • 2:53 - How might students use this statement for multiple schools? 

  • 3:48 - Should students talk about challenges they’ve faced in a personal statement? 

  • 6:47 - Should students talk about their major or career goals?

  • 8:33 - Where is the best place to discuss extracurricular activities? 

  • 10:20 - Should students explain red flags in their personal statement?

  • 11:26 - How can students brainstorm potential topics for their personal statement?

  • 17:56 - What is the structure of a personal statement?

  • 21:11 - How can students stand out?

  • 28:57 - Case Study: What does the process look like from brainstorming to final draft?

  • 35:39 - How does a student know when their essay is done?

  • 38:27 - Is there a place for artificial intelligence in the college essay?

  • 41:47 - have personal statements shifted since the Supreme Court ruling on Race-Conscious Admissions?

  • 44:04 - Why does the personal statement process matter?

  • 49:14 - Closing thoughts

ResourceS

 

502: What Colleges Want (Part 2): A Deep Dive into GPA, Course Selection, and Making the Most of the Academic Opportunities Available to You

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On today’s episode, Tom Campbell (CEG’s Community Manager) and Nitzya Cuevas-Macias (Director of College Programs at Downtown College Prep) cover:

  • How do students decide which classes to take—and what questions should they ask when deciding?

  • Key recommendations for selecting English, math, science, social studies, language, and elective courses

  • The most frequently asked questions we get asked about courses and grades

Nitzya Cuevas-Macias was a first-gen college student at UC Berkeley where she studied History and Legal Studies, and earned her Master’s in Mexican American Studies from San José State. She’s been working in education for 16 years where the majority of her time has been in college access and success, in the CBO, non-profit world, k-12 public and charter, and community college. Currently, she is the Director of College Programs at Downtown College Prep, a free public charter in San José, CA and serves as a board member of the Western Association for College Admission Counseling.

We hope you enjoy!

Play-by-play

  • 2:21 - Introductions

  • 6:02 - What are key things to keep in mind when planning your high school experience?

  • 10:21 - Subject area recommendations

    • 11:40 - English

    • 16:04 - Math

    • 21:34 - Science

    • 28:02 - Social Studies

    • 31:11 - Languages

    • 33:06 - Visual/Performing Arts

    • 36:17 - Electives

  • 36:39 - Rapid-fire FAQs about grades

    • 37:43 How do colleges evaluate my course grades and transcript?

    • 38:22 - Is it important to only get Straight-As to have a chance?

    • 40:29 - How do colleges evaluate my GPA?

    • 42:05 - How can students balance a high GPA with challenging courses?

    • 44:28 - Should students increase their rigor every year?

    • 45:23 - Is it a good idea to take additional summer or online courses?

    • 49:43 - How important is class rank?

    • 51:19 - Should I pick Honors, AP, IB, or Dual Enrollment?

    • 54:17 - Are AP and IB scores important if my school doesn’t offer AP courses?

    • 57:28 - How do I know what classes to take if I don't know what I want to study or where I want to go to college?

  • 59:59 - Wrap up / closing thoughts

Resources

 

501: What Colleges Want (Part 1): A Deep Dive into the Factors Colleges Deem Important & State of College Admissions Report

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On today's episode, Ethan sits down with David Hawkins, Chief Education and Policy Officer at National Association of College Admission Counselors (aka NACAC), and they get discuss, among other things: 
What are the most important factors colleges consider? 

  • What significant changes has he seen in the college admission landscape in the past few years?

  • How has the emphasis on college essays (aka the personal statement) shifted? 

  • Why has the emphasis in standardized testing changed?

  • What have the impacts been of the Supreme Court decision to ban race conscious admission? 

  • How can students, counselors, and parents use the info in this report to make their college admission process easier? 

For over 20 years, David Hawkins has worked in enrollment management and admissions to alleviate systemic barriers to accessing higher education. Hawkins has played a key role in setting NACAC's strategic direction, which involved hearing and representing the collective voice of NACAC’s more than 25,000 high school counselors and college admission officers. His priorities include making NACAC a more effective learning organization, with an emphasis on ethics and redefining advocacy.

We hope you enjoy the conversation.

Play-by-play

  • 2:04 - Introductions

  • 3:03 - What is the State of College Admission report?

  • 5:48 - How can students, parents, and counselors use this report?

  • 9:50 - Which factors of admissions decisions are most important to colleges?

  • 13:34 - How are “positive character attributes” assessed?

  • 18:00 - What are some specific qualities that are important to colleges?

  • 20:46 - How do students show these qualities in their applications?

  • 25:33 - How has the importance of the college essay shifted in recent years?

  • 27:13 - Which colleges seem to value the essay more highly?

  • 28:47 - How does a student’s interest in attending a particular school influence admissions decisions?

  • 32:30 - How are counselor & teacher recommendations assessed?

  • 33:58 - What are admissions officers looking for in extracurricular activities?

  • 37:38 - Why is high school class rank dropping in rank of importance? 

  • 39:30 - Do colleges still want to see standardized test scores?

  • 42:52 - Quick thoughts on creative portfolios, interviews, work experience, state exam scores, and subject test scores

  • 44:49 - David shares predictions on shifts in equity and inclusion in the future of admissions

  • 48:57 - Closing thoughts 

Resources